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Can You Say, “Uh-Baugh-Mih-Nay-Shun”? I Knew You Could Do It
Posted by Brian Thornton on January 11, 2007
I just saw on TV a ‘religious’ program that is marketing something that is perhaps the most egregious and pathetic and deplorable thing I have ever seen pushed by the health-and-wealth, name-it-and-claim-it quacks on television…The Holy Communion Package: Releasing God’s Favor.
I watched this heretic – Gregory Dickow – as he led his viewers in taking ‘communion’ through the television set; as he talked about health and wealth through the taking of this ‘communion’; and how he never mentioned even once the true meaning of the Lord’s Supper and what it represents: the bread being Christ’s body broken and given for us, and the cup signifying the New Covenant in His blood. The atoning work of the cross was never even so much as hinted at, only a bunch of junk about eating the annointing…receiving the annointing…and being healthier and wealthier by taking this ‘communion’…not to mention the fact that this guy is encouraging people to take what they think is true communion apart from the rest of the body of Christ. An UN-corporate Lord’s Supper!
Here is what you too can receive if you order the Holy Communion Package:
- A 30-day supply of communion elements to help you establish the habit of receiving communion as a part of your daily lifestyle.
- The Power of Communion: Receiving the Favor of God message on audio CD or cassette tape.
- A Communion prayer card. Many people have called or written wanting the words of the prayer I use when I lead people to receive communion on our television show.
- The DVD of our TV show titled “The Power of Holy Communion” where I teach you one-on one, the meaning and power of communion.
Here is one of the statements from Dickow regarding this special promotion:
Take the first step toward unleashing the power of God’s favor in your life today by learning the power of communion. I encourage you to take communion today over a situation where you don’t feel God has turned to your favor. Then that situation will change because God has a blood-bought oath to show you His favor through His precious body and through His precious blood. I want you to expect it today!
There are also testimonials on the website which recount stories of healings, financial gain, and job promotions after taking this communion. I will not provide the web address or links to this horrible heretic here because I do not want to risk contributing to his abominations. If you want the link, email me and I will consider it.
This is the kind of thing that makes me cry even louder, “COME, LORD JESUS!”.
Brian Rollins said
Financial gain? You mean I might be able to buy a larger house if I order this stuff? Wow!
Seriously, that is indeed sad… I’m so thankful for being a member of RCC where we can take true communion every Sunday! It’s amazing how much false teaching is out there.
Brandon said
I’m just trying to figure out how he comes to the conclusion that communion brings wealth and health. I’ve always understood it to be a “ceremony” (if you will) of thankfulness, reflection and repentance…
I do have a question. I have not researched this topic so I simply don’t know-
Where does the Bible make it clear that communion is only to be observed corporately? I may have misunderstood what you were meaning when you said, “an UN-corporate communion”, but if I didn’t I’d like to know more about that.
Thanks and be blessed…
Brandon
Brian Thornton said
I can think of no example in Scripture where the Lord’s Supper is done privately…apart from the body of Christ. Also, every time instructions are given concerning the observance of the Lord’s Supper, it is a corporate instruction, not an instruction for private, individual observance. It is something to be done corporately, together with the body…not alone.
Additionally, the Lord’s Supper is more than just a ‘ceremony’, it is a means of grace. I believe that when I come together with the body to partake of the bread and the cup (which is every week for us at RCC), that I am actually communing with my Savior.
The Lord’s Supper is so much more than what most churches (such as the majority of those within the SBC) have made it. Our former mega SBC church maybe observed the Supper four times a year…if that! I’m afraid most churches don’t see it as much of any significance (a nuisance more than anything) that they continue to do on a very minimal basis just so they can continue to say they are within the bounds of orthodox Christianity.
connie said
This is sickening, but not surprising! If I may use an overused saying, “It’s NOT about me, it’s about Jesus!!” More evidenc that man will twist and turn anything and everything for HIS own benefit and glory.
julie said
this is indeed scary, heretical and an abomination. Brian you are so correct in your statements about the true meaning of the Lord’s supper. To think that I can have my own private “communion” at home – it’s like they are trying to make us into little priests or popes in our homes or something.
Brandon, the Bible says in 1 Corinthians chapter 11: “When you come together” meaning, when the church is assembled together, and then goes on to give instruction on the Lord’s supper. Also, remember that when Jesus instituted the Lord’s Supper in Matthew 26, that He did so with the disciples assembled together and they all partook together. I am not sure if there is a clear command in Scripture that it must be done corporately, but there are clear examples from Scripture. There is of course, a whole body of doctrinal teaching surrounding the meaning and the practice of the Lord’s supper, which you could find in any good systematic theology book. also you might poke around this website for articles written by pastors and theologians on the subject:
monergism.com
The Aspiring Theologian said
Ha, communion isn’t even about earthly wealth! I’m amazed that the man actually could call it “communion” and get away with it. Who is he communing with? Definately not God or the saints in heaven…
Eunice said
Unfortunately, I am one of those who used to watch this guy on TV and believed what he preached. He is only one of many, you know. Paula White also has a similar “package” that you can purchase. Yes, I was deceived (a long, painful story) but I was brought out of it through sincere seeking of God and His Truth.
One of the books I read during the road back to reality was “Putting the Amazing back into Grace” by Michael Horton. He discusses communion in his book and for the first time in my 15 years of being a “born again” christian, I understood what it really meant. The body and blood are reminders that Christ is in us and supplies the grace we need for the journey. As I read it, I thought about my new church and hoped that they would have communion so I could partake of it in Truth. Only God could have engineered things this way…just a few days later, on New Year’s Eve, my new pastor anounced we would be having communion. He explained further that this was a way for us to reaffirm the grace available to us in Christ. What an awesome blessing to start the new year with…
By the way, I have since turned off Christian TV. It’s awful and can lead to so much confusion. Many people see this medium as a way to spread the gospel…I see it more as a way to spread the false gospel!
jamiecain said
Eunice mentions Paula White, whose package, “The Meal that Heals,” is a similar abomination that makes Paula (not the living Christ) the focus of the feast. It’s disgusting.
Sadly, thousands hang on the words of White and her ilk.
Phil Perkins said
Wow! Why don’t Evangelical leaders pronounce against these heretics? Because it would cut dowm their market share?
Horrified,
Phil Perkins.
Puritan Lad said
Sad. Of course this is nothing new. Perry Stone was selling the “Meal that Heals” a while back. They treat communion like a rabbit’s foot, or even worse, like a genie in a bottle, waiting to come forth and grant three wishes.
Even worse, they just don’t see their error.
Bill Scudder said
Brian, you say you are thankfull for the RCC communion. The Roman Catholic commuion is also an abomination.
Brian Thornton said
Bill,
Unless I am way off base, I think you are misconstruing RCC for Roman Catholic communion. ‘RCC communion’ does not refer to Roman Catholic communion, but Rockdale Community Church, where Pam and I are members.
jesse Gistand said
The article is insightful, but the peoples response is even more telling.
It is clear that without sound teaching and an understanding of the gospel, people will always misconstrue ” means of grace, or sacraments, or as bapist put it, ordinances .
The reason so many people have so many different opinions is that they do not know what the bible teaches about this and many other things.
This is how the False prophets continue to decieve and make merchandise out of people.
And yes, RCC can mean anything, even Roman Catholic Church, which is what I thought by the response.
Study your bibles, good ones; learn the message of the gospel, sit under sound preaching and teaching, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free!
David Gantz said
NOTE FROM BRIAN – I edited these comments due to some inappropriate content, but I wanted to be able to at least display some of what the other side might have to say. If you are interested in the full version, email me and I will consider it…Here are the edited comments:
I went to Gregs church in Chicago for 4 years.
Now WARNING, I ain’t gonna ride along with ANY of you and I don’t kiss up to Pastors either including Greg.
But > I can vouch for him as a gifted speaker for large crowds and his genuine testimony. He’s good, also a great Christian husband and father, without a doubt…
Are any of you perfect ? Someone here ain’t perfect, I can smell it, definitely, with divine discernment I know who it is – - – — – ME ! LoL
Well Gregs not perfect either. His church is not perfect, far from it. His sermons and doctrine may not be perfect either. How can imperfect people have perfect doctrine ? Do imperfect people ALWAYS interprtet the bible perfectly ? I DOUBT it.
That means Greg comes up with some IMPERFECT stuff and so do YOU !
…So y’all can just back off the “he’s a heretic” rant.
That’s just childish, calling other brothers and sisters “heretics”. I’ve heard Gregs testimony of salvation, it’s genuine. I’ve heard Greg confesss in sermons his rotten attitudes at times as a husband, as a human being, etc. The man is a Christian, he is also human…
Greg has a lot to learn, and so do every one of you here who posted, and so do I. I guarantee you Greg is probably a better Christian than me and perhaps even some of you { surprise surprise ! LoL } Gregs not perfect, his church isn’t perfect and his preaching isn’t perfect, and neither are any of you perfect, and I ain’t perfect either, so let’s all just chill out a minute, – - exhale ~ my real name > Dave Gantz
anyone got a problem with me ? Knock on my door, well step out front and settle it man to man, guaranteed…
David Gantz said
Moderator Brian,
Thankyou for editing some of my post, some of my sarcasm at the end was out of line in retrospect.
You edited the my post > perfectly.
I request you let it stand as the final copy and NOT forward the rest of my post to anyone.
If you cannot do that please let me know, thankyou for the opportunity to post.
David Gantz
David Gantz said
Us ‘civilian’ Christians who are not Pastors or preachers would do well to remember one thing. These guys took up the challenge to stand up, be seen and heard publically in speaking, preaching and living the Christian life.
The rest of us get to hide behind our regular jobs and businesses, many of our neighbors do not even know we are Christians or bible believers.
It is so easy to spit at and criticize the guy who has stepped up on the platform of a pastorate or to preach.
The poor guys become sitting duck targets for our criticisms. And I’m guilty of it too.
But my challenge to all us nonprofessional Christians is this, go to work and preach to your co’workers if you think certain pastors are so screwed up, try it on your own and see how YOU do as a speaker, preacher, pastor ! Ah, not so easy is it ! And pretty darn intimidating too.
I’m a stumbling bumbling sinfully profane construction foreman, and me being totally UN-QUALIFIED to speak as a Christian leader > I was asked by non-believers to speak at a funeral for a saved man from Gregs church who had died, to speak to his unsaved family and friends — – I said some things so unintended that one punk rocker dressed in leather and all tattooed up came up to me in anger and loud voice with verbal attack, I was ready for a fight – didn’t happen, but I had to admit, I was a very inept speaker even though I read some scripture, being preacher is NOT as easy as it looks !
In other words, even IF Greg overlooked somethings in communion doctrine, YOU go try and preach on the corner, you go try to pastor some inmates in a jail, YOU try to be a missionary in your neighborhood and I guarantee you make some goofs and slip ups as well – - -
God is bigger than our mistakes and pardons freely our misguided notions about stuff – especially when at our core, we believe in Jesus as our personal Savoir.
Greg at his core believes in Jesus as his personal Savoir, therefore, the heretic attack does NOT apply.
Here I am defending the guy even though I don’t go anymore, why do I defend him ? Cuz he is my and YOUR brother in Christ. And remember, Christ defends all us sluggards in all our junk to the Father in front of our vicious hateful accuser > that liar the devil.
Pat Shaw said
How to start…
11 years ago my wife walked out of MD Anderson hospital healed from one of the “worse cases of sarcoma ” the doctors had ever seen. as we went throght the process with our lord we had to reinforce the fact that she was healed in fath to the doctors over and over. finally when they opened her up just o make sue , the atheist doctor that was her surgeon exclaimed without promptimng,” your God has healed your wife!!”
this is what is missing in the lives of so many “believers”
faith. Hebrews. 11:6 faith. i will go to the cross with my addictions, and my life as did the early, and contemporary martyrs.
i was raised catholic, but in eighth grade found reason to agree with Luther.. so sad to see the amount of worship of “doctrine ” in the non catholic churh as there is. frankly some of you folks are more “catholic “than the pope.
god is too big to be fit into ANY churches doctrinal staement as we do not have the minds to pull it all together. trust, and obey, there is no other way.
but to rust him, means more than for our salvation, it means for all the other areas that so many will not garner up their faith to do so. our doctor knows that god lives, and loves. not because of a doctrinal statement, but by the example of what gods power does in a fallen world, and in fallen people.
to Him be the glory, now and forever.
David Gantz said
this whole thread started concerning the subject and allegation of wrong type of communion.
Greg Dickow’s ministry happened to be the focal point but lets talk about communion.
What is the perfect biblical communion ? Before everyone chimes in with THEIR biblical and experiencial of what they think is the RIGHT communion – — let’s back away from ourselves and say, Let God be God and we are not !
I defend Greg as a brother in Christ, I never personally met him but I like his preaching and like him as a person. Yes I have been in Gregs Chicago church during many communions.
Did I think Gregs approach, practice, and teaching on communion is THE final and best communion service ?
Absolutely NOT. Do I think that the Catholics have a near perfect communion service ? Absolutely NOT.
Do I think that the tiny church I attended at as a boy hit the bullseye in it’s style of communion service ?
No, no and no.
I can easily criticize all three styles.
Our earthly communion services are led, and participated in by US. Sinners, people who do not know everything, though at times we think we know – - — Communion services led by Pastors who think they are teaching and leading the almost perfectly right way of communion – - but inspite of their best intentions, they fall short.
Communion at it’s essence is remembering the death, crucifixition, and ressurection of Jesus. The real and spiritual symbols of Jesus body and blood.
We come to communion because Jesus was perfect, we come to honor the Lord in remembering God’s great gift to us in Jesus Christ. A gift we so desperately need because we are sinners in need of redemption and salvation.
Emotionally we tend to bond with the original communions we experienced as new believers.
Catholics have an emotional bond to the style and service they have known, felt, and experienced.
People off the street in Gregs church will emotionally bond with Gregs style of communion in his church and they will tend to 99 or 100 % buy into Gregs teaching as the final word of what communion is or should be.
I have a bond in memory and experience with the communion service that I attended as a teen-ager, a service that did not have a Pastor lording over it, but elders and godly older men who took turns standing up, praying, weeping, and thanking God for the great gift of Jesus and His finished work on the cross and ressurection.
To me, Gregs communion services will never hold a candle to those of my original memory and experience.
BUT Gregs church is lifting up the name of Jesus as the focal point of their communion, not a perfect communion but a sincere rememberance of Jesus, just as the older men in my memory of communion years ago were sincere and meant to worship God – - could that communion have been better ? Absolutely, hymns with deep spiritual meaning were sung, but they were centuries old and as a teen I was baffled by the ancient music and frustrated with King James version reading of scripture full of thee’s and thou’s that I could NOT understand because I live NOW, NOT 100 YEARS ago.
I actually recall some small minded baptist Pastor{ but I love the guy } stating in church service that the ONLY acceptable and inspired Word of God IS the King James Version.
I’m no scholar, I’m a bricklayers foreman, but LoL, you got to be kidding me – - – what a STUPID statement, did Jesus read the King James Version while on earth ? There are 60 million new Christians in China, do they read the KJV ?
Pastors ARE imperfect, they come up with some down right stupid stuff from their platforms along with some gloriously divinely inspired words.
Bottom line, no earthly pastors words are perfect, no earthly church is perfect, there are many different outlooks and OPINIONS in the body of Christ and inspite of the huge emotional attachment we feel at times to certain Pastors or churchs, ain’t no ONE of ‘em the bulleyes of the Christian faith on earth. But we each pick one imperfect church and GO, and support, and love those whom are there from the leaders all the way down to the bum who walks in off the street.
God bless you all and tomorrow Sunday let’s ALL be sure we are somewhere remembering the Lord in Communion, whether it’s at a Catholic church, Gregs church, some little urban storefront church, maybe a small frame little place with a steeple in the middle of frozen wheat fields in Dakota, or in a church with a tin roof in the middle of sweltering Africa or India, or massive China, – -
Tommorrow is Sunday, break bread, drink the cup and remember and worship Jesus Christ our Savoir.
Jeanetta said
While I don’t feel comfortable with the idea of “selling” communion as a marketing scheme, I have been taught that we CAN conduct communion at home… that it is a GOOD thing that families should partake of together not just on Sunday morning. Doesn’t the Word say that wherever two or three are gathered together in His name, He is there in the midst? If you choose to do this, I have been taught that you should set some special bread/crackers and juice/wine aside to use for the sacrament (not just grab the next slice from the sandwich loaf… this is not holy). Then the husband/parent can lead the family in communion. This is not to REPLACE the coming together of the saints on the sabbath, but to supplement the worship of the Lord. I even know singles who have done this in remembrance of Him in their own home. YES… God is a God of order, but I think that He also loves worship offered up with a pure heart, not just religiosity.
David Gantz said
Great thoughts on communion Jeanetta.
As far as the whole “marketing scheme” thing, well yea ! Greg always has something to sell.
Some are cricicizing that he is “selling” communion, – - -I doubt it, he is selling tapes/CD’s with HIS teaching/opinion on communion and there happens to be communion wafers in the package.
When you buy a sermon CD, tape or book, it is labelled not as property of the church but as belonging to ‘Gregory Dickow Ministries”.
David said
David Gantz, It is nice of you to try to defend what Greg is doing,however Pastors are held to a higher standard than the rest of us(because they are teachers). Therefore they are expected by God to teach what is in the Bible..not some revelation they think they may have received.
Jesus was very clear about the purpose of Communion. It was for the purpose of remembering what He did on the Cross for us. At no time did he mention prosperity,healing,promotion,etc. Several WOF teachers are spreading this FALSE teaching about communion..which in turn leads people away from the true meaning and False belief.
Did not Paul say if anyone comes to you preaching another Jesus,another Gospel,..shun him, run away from him.(paraphrased). When these teachers preach things that are not in the Word, then they become False teachers no matter how good their teaching may sound. I was also a member at LC(for many yrs) and heard first hand many teachings that I now realize were false.
And Yes he is selling communion. When you have it in a package with other items for sale..then you are selling it.
Pastor Greg did not start out teaching this stuff in the early yrs of LC,but as he got hooked up with the leaders of the WOF movement his teaching changed and not for the better. Is he human? yes,does he make mistakes, yes, we all do…but again because he is a pastor he is held to a higher standard according to the Word.
Gid Bless
David Gantz said
David { who wrote in the last post }, you wrote that “Greg didn’t start out that way ”
I DO believe Greg has a most sincere and touching testimony of coming to Christ as a teen,
Greg has spoke that he went to bible college and constantly read and read the bible. Loved hearing that a young man read the bible for hours a day, wish I would have when I was 20.
Some complain Greg is about making money.
There is 2 sides to that, we ALL want to make money in our society. Just because someone has a church or missionary based job does that mean the desire to make money should be any less ? I like makin’ a buck !
You say Greg should be held to a higher standard, well I should be held to a higher standard cuz I confessed Christ when I was 7 so I have no excuses to be a jerk, or a low life or sin – - yet I have some issues like profanity and ashamed of it. I doubt Pastors screw up the way I have at times, so I don’t judge ‘em.
I’m a bricklayer foreman, and I swear when the job does not go well, – - but do I witness Jesus to the men ? No. So I care about if bricks don’t get laid fast enough but I don’t care enough about the lost men I work with to witness to them — – SHAME on me for being afraid, BUT Greg preaches name of Jesus ! Unafraid.
So even IF Greg has some issues or sells church stuff to make personal money, so what, he does it to promote people toward Jesus Christ which is more than I do.
Christians like me, I want to meet the Lord, but afraid, I”ve been a lazy Christian, but men like Greg preach the bible unafraid.
I quit Greg’s church cuz it’s to much a ‘mega-church’, I hate that he can’t meet anyone ever, too big, but whatever , there’s more important issues in life.
I went there for 6 yrs on and off and 3 full years steady and WORKED there doing little stuff like picking up chairs – but we worked hard at it. My friend Sanford helped too, but he died of cancer, he was a new Christian, the pastor didn’t know Sanford, I spoke at Sanfords funeral memorial at his unsaved famillies request, which is a joke as I’m NOT a trained minister, I wish Greg could have met Sanford b’cuz Sanford LOVED Gregs church and went there till his dying day.
Sanfords last Sunday at Greg’s church we had to carry him out of there, he couldn’t stand, he died shortly there-after, Sanford was a gentle soul in a world full of sharks and jerks, Sanford a believer in the Lord.
I would say if you don’t like a big church like Gregs, go to a smaller more family style of church, if you like a big mega type production, then Gregs church is a choice to look into. As long as a church preaches the Lord in Jesus name from the bible, isn’t that good enough ?
David Gantz said
Isn’t there some bible quote that says a tree can be seen by type of fruit it has ?
Greg is not available to get to know, but you can to talk to his people >
There is a stocky built ex-con white guy who did serious jail time for a narco type of thing, this guy was a tough guy but now is married, studies the bible and is a humble preacher, after sermons he is approachable, same with the associate Pastor Law, he knows his bible, he is a FANTASTIC small group teacher and discussion moderator. Or Paul at Chicago.
Or the countless women who serve the Lord at Gregs church doing tables and helping kids.
These people love the Lord. I left > it was ridiculous that Greg doesn’t know when people have problems like cancer or dying, but he travels all over the world too so I guess situation doesn’t allow it. But his people love the Lord. If his people love the Lord then one could deduct that of course he does too. I’m not going back, when it’s time to put me in a box and bury me, I want the Pastor to know my name, so I moved on – - like I said, my buddy Sanford died of cancer and it wasn’t announced or for congregation to pray for him and that is the mega church style.
David said
A pastors Job is to teach the flock, minister to them and be available to them, Does he teach? Yes, but the Word is meant to be taught line upon line..precept upon precept. The Word is not to be taught by cut and paste.. as many WOF teachers do. When the Bible is taught this way then many false teachings come into play. This is perhaps the most important issues with these men.
I have no doubt that Greg had a real conversion in his teens. However when you begin to teach things like excessive prosperity…give so you can get..healing is in communion…We are little gods…we can put a demand on the annointing..it goes on and on. These are not teachings from the Bible.
As far as the members of LC? yes some were very nice , but many did not ever know each other, much less any of the few pastors they currently have.
Its not about the money or how much you have(even though many of them teach more about money than anything else( see Creflo Dollar)
And again, Pastors are according the Bible(James 3:1) are held to a much higher standard that us regular guys.
So always check out for youself what you have been taught by a pastor so that you will never be deceived.
PS: Im very sorry to hear about your friend, but praise God that he is now healed and in heaven.
God Bless
David Gantz said
I appreciate your comments, you have concerns about doctrine, I’m not into doctrine, I care about my friends, perhaps in eternity I’ll have time to learn all that deep doctrine stuff.
I really really don’t think Greg is trying to ‘decieve’ anyone, on the contrary, he has his style that he sincerely believes and preaches.
I view it as a subjective thing, not objective.
As I scanned some sermon notes from Greg from yrs ago, YES there were some extremely encouraging teachings from various bible verses, and THANKYOU GREG for your hard work and bible reading that was shared ~
People on this specific thread are bent out of shape about exagerated opinion concerning what Greg has said about communion.
I interpret the jist of Gregs communion teaching in that in REMEMBERING the LORD via communion, as well as obeying the Lord in many area’s in life both tends to protect us somewhat and lead us toward a better path in life especially compared to being godless with no restraint.
Yes I think Gregs communion service could use more solemn moments BUT it’s still COMMUNION .
People are stopping and drinking and eating bread in REMEMMBERENCE of Jesus and what HE did for us.
Would I critize Greg ? Heck I critize my own brother BUT I LOVE him ! So I might hit Greg in the ribs about Sanford who died BUT at the end of the day, I love Greg as my brother in Christ.
Thanks for honoring the memory of Sanford in your comment.
God bless you as well.
David said
David, one final comment. Regarding doctrine, it is so important for us a christians to read and study our bible so we will not be deceived in these last days. We are in the final yrs of this world as we know it, so we all must be ready
The reason that Greg and so many others can lead people astray with false teachings is that we dont read the bible for ourselves. We are told from the word that we are to study to show theyself approved.
God Bless
David Gantz said
Your are right in telling me to read the bible for myself, indeed, I did not go to any church this morning.
Instead of going I stayed at home and read Ephesians.
Pastor Greg once said in sermon > “give honor where honor is due”
Well this morning I did that. On TV in silence they posted 20 names of soldiers in IRAQ who were KILLED this past week. Also one was pictured on front page of Chicago Tribune, the kid was homeless w/o family in High School, joined the military, was shot and died a few days ago.
I HONOR THEIR NAMES AND MEMORIES, I THANK THEM FOR THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE for sacrificing, for fighting for freedom.
Pastors in mega churchs across America need to back off preaching their own churchs agenda’s and remember our troops. To pray for them in Sermons ? To honor them ? There are a lot of things MORE important than the goings of on at our local church, though church can be great.
20 families of KILLED soldiers are going to burying thier dead young sons THIS week. They are not feeling “blessed”. Instead, intense grief.
Give honor to where honor is due.
Give honor where honor is due.
Brian Thornton said
David Gantz,
As a believer, you are not an island unto yourself. Please hear me…you gave no honor to God this morning by forsaking the assembling with other believers and staying home to read the Bible.
If you are truly a child of God, then you are part of the body of Christ. And as such, you have an obligation to that body.
Instead of attempting to honor soldiers, I exhort you to honor your risen Savior.
David Gantz said
Brian Thorton, > you are correct in saying a man is not an island unto himself. Not attending church today was a temporary situation. Yes I should honor our Savoir.
This may sound as though I’m making it up but I actually DID take communion at home, Greg Dickow has preached about doing that although I assume he would prefer we take communion at his church as a first choice.
If I failed to honor the Lord in taking communion and reading the bible at home, then I failed, what can I say – -
I disagree with you concerning my own personal TIME spent simply observing the FACT that young men died this week in IRAQ. Perhaps this week I will be local veterans hospital in support of.
Let’s get some PERSPECTIVE HERE > While YOU were at your church gabbing up it up socially about light wieght stuff on the church steps after the sermon, young guys are on the treachorous streets of Bagdad preforming as commanded.
What’s more important > that you were a good little church attender for an hour today somewhere in middle America or that some American kid that is injured or killed RIGHT NOW today in IRAQ ?
The answer is quite obvious.
For all I know you were in Iraq or maybe you served in Vietnam or something. Your made great sacrifice for us all if you did, and anyones church attendance is nothing in comparision.
Glen Jeffers said
We best listen to some of the more moderate voices in this post – like David Gantz on Jan 24.
The very thing Paul was teching against I hear in what is being said on this post. Brian said on Jan 12, “…it is all about Jesus.” Brother, please read I Cor 11:27-34, which clearly is addressing us partaking worhtily by “discerning the Lord’s body.”
Paul makes it clear that in I Cor 10:17 that to discern the body properly (worthily) is to discern the spiritual truth that we (the church – ie the body of Christ). We are the bread of the Lord’s Supper! Please read I Cor 12:12-13 and I Cor 12:27 which teaches we are members individually of the body of Christ. But the clearest statement is in I Cor 10:17 which says,
“For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.”
We are one bread and one body! The Lord’s Supper is not about Jesus only in the sense of Him alone like I thing Brian meant (correct me if I’m wrong) but is about ALL of us being a member of His body.
Just a small part of what Paul was teaching is how we treat other members of Jesus’ body by what we speak about them. We can either speak the Word (bread) of life to each other through encouragement, edification and comfort (I Cor 14:3) which is a part of the prophetic or we can speak words of death through envy, strife, division, malace, jealousy, backbiting, whisperings conceits, tumults and contention (I Cor 3:1-3, 5:6-8 & II Cor 12:19-13:6)
I would encourage some on this post to examine (I Cor 11:27-32) and judge for yourself what you said about Gregory lest you come under God’s judgment. The Lord’s chastening is to turn (repent) us for our evil speech about one another.
May we stop bringing division by getting puffed-up about our own demoninations and how much knowledge we have and walk a little more humbly in unity, love and peace so the world can see Jesus in us (John 17:20-26).
One last scripture:
Paul warned the Corinthians 14 years after his firat letter when he wrote in the second letter about “discerning the body of the lord when he said in II Cor 5:10,
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
Things done “in the body” does NOT refer to my body but what I did for (good bread or speach) or against (bad words) others in the “body of Christ” as a member of His body.
Jim Cooper said
I would like to chime in as well. I go to LifeChangers and have for over 9 years. Pastor Dickow is a man of God and his teaching on communion is not heretical. The first century church had no buildings and met in homes. Communion wasn’t meant to be religious but done to remember what Christ had done for us. The first christains started taking communion together and didn’t have the right attitude and became sick because of it. They were instructed by the apostles not to abuse the lords supper by getting drunk and over eating. Afterwards people had a more serious attitude about communion. Pastor Dickow’s teaching is about having faith in God and communion is a point of contact for that faith. God wants us well and by taking communion we are relying on the blood and body of Jesus to heal us. Paul the apostle had people get healed by touching a piece of cloth or by walking in his shadow. People are healed by their faith in Jesus. Pastor Dickow is not making communion out to be some mystical teaching. You need to look into what he teaches by listening to other services where he taught about communion. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover, read the whole book as well!
David said
Jim, can you show us in scripture where it says that communion is a point of contact for faith? Can you also show us in scripture where it says that communion can heal us or bring prosperity? Concerning Paul, The bible says that these were unusual miracles…meaning they were for that short period of time..no where else in the new testament does this ever occur again.
Where does it say in scripture say that we can sell communion? Should not communion be given out freely? I dont see anywhere in the bible where Jesus or any of the disciples charged anyone for communion. Again as I said in an earlier post, The purpose of communion was to remember what Jesus did on the Cross for us( without him suffering on the Cross we would be destined for hell)(Isaiah 53 speaks volumes, but does not mention communion). Why does any teacher have to add to that? Jesus himself said ” Do this in rememberence of Me” He said nothing else about this act. Yes we should take communion for that purpose, however when we try to add to it then and build a teaching around it that is false, then a major problem is created. This becomes a false doctrine.
When we study the Word it is to be read chapter and verse..not by picking out a scripture here and one there to create a teaching. This is why there is so much false teaching taking place in churches today.
By selling this communion package PDis no different than the money changers that Jesus chased out of the temple. If he really believes this package can help people then he should give away for FREE. Freely you have received, so Freely give.
God Bless
Glen Jeffers said
Jim (#31), you have not answered David about communion being a point of faith, healing, prosperity and “this do in remebrance of me” (#32) so do you mind if I answer him?
David (#32) would mind me answering your #32 and some other comments?
David said
sure have at it
Glen Jeffers said
This will be quite long but it will be worth the journey. I will attempt to answer not only David (post #32) about issues in my post #33 but things also mentioned by Connie (#4) and by Julie (#5).
Communion as a point of contact for Faith
Communion is about FAITH from start to finish. First, it is impossible to please God OR receive a reward OR diligently seek him without FAITH (Hebrews 11:6). The man who received a reward was a man of FAITH because of the gold, silver and precious stones True prosperity) from which the Lord built this mans house (I Cor 3:10-20, Mat 6:18-20 & Ps 127:1). This parable IS about the Lord’s Supper and being a Carnal baby Christian (I Cor 3:15) or being spiritually mature (I Cor 3:14). These are the 2 examples contrasted in I Corinthians 3:1-3.
I warn all who speak against a brother like Paul did when he warned us all about missing the spiritual part of the manna or the spititual part of Communion. Our fathers ate manna (I Cor 10:1-3) but Paul says they missed the spiritual part of their baptism into the cloud and the sea and the spiritual rock that was Christ. Why was God not pleased with them (I Cor 10:5)? They had about 20 problems but one was they did not mix FAITH with what they heard (Heb 4:2). If you read the context of this passage they did not enter the Promised Land because of their unbelief. In the same way Faith must be mixed with the Words of Communion for us to enter out latter day Promised Land (rest) (Heb 4:6-9).
Faith is one of our treasures and is more precious than gold (I Peter 1:5). FAITH should be used every day just like we should take Communion everyday. I am not speaking of a daily taking of the elements but a daily spiritual Communion. May we all stop arguing about the physical elements so we do not miss the spiritual truth.
Communion can Healing
This is simple. Paul says they are “weak, sick and many sleep (die young) because they “do not discern the Lord’s body.” Does it not stand to even human understanding that if we properly “discern the Lord’s body” that it will bring strength, healing and wake us up? Later we will discern the Lord’s body in a spiritual way I believe many of you have never heard.
Communion can bring prosperity
Physical prosperity is an absolute necessity in the kingdom of God on this earth. To say that Greg should give the communion material away is not realistic. Who is he going to find to make it for free or print the material or mail it to anyone. Communion is about accomplishing the predestined call of God on my life, which every believer has (Rom 8:27-31). Believe me, Communion has very little to do with you getting to church to share crackers and wine (grape juice) with your friends. It is about the entire body of Christ accomplishing its purpose for which we are here (John 17:20-26). However, even for you to get to church will most likely require you to purchase a car, gas and clothing. The reward spoken of in I Corinthians 3:10-20 is mostly about our Faith to tithe (money enough to get the job done), pray and fast Matthew 6:1-21). All these are done in hiding but God will reward us openly (verses 4, 6 & 18). The problem we see on TV is that more emphasis seems to be on physical rather than spiritual prosperity. However, God desires we have both (III John 1:2). John tells us he desires us to have prosperity and health just as our soul prospers. Why should prosperity of the soul should come first. Because James warns us that if we get money first we will spend it on our own pleasures (James 4:3). This ties directly back to Communion because it says “Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s wellbeing” (I Cor 10: 24) and verse 31, “Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.” These statements are truely about Communion and bring glory to Jesus every day in whatever I do. This is the “this do in remembrance of me.” Communion is NOT just a mere thought process as we shall see.
Selling Communion
An elder who rules well is worthy of double honor (money) (I Tim 5:17,18). Freely you have been given so freely give is not about selling the gospel. Even Jesus had a treasurer so he was obviouly taking donations. It takes money to do anything. It’s that simple. We all will be called to account for what we are stewards of.
This do in remembrance of me
David, I say this truth in love. You are quilty of the exact thing you spoke against Word of faith teachers. In post 24 you said. “The Word of God is not to be taught by cut and paste..as many WOF teachers do.” Yet in post #32 you said, “Jesus himself said, ‘Do this in remembrance of me…” What the Word really says is in I Corinthians 11:24, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
This will also address Connie in post #4 when she said, “Its NOT about me, its about Jesus.” Connie it IS all about you and about me. We are the ones being warned to not partake unworthily. There is a harsh warning that says we can be eternally damned if we partake unworthily as an unbeliever (I Cor 11:32). Or we can be weak (unable to overcome sin as in I Cor 3:1-3)), sick (fear, anxiety, illness, etc.) and sleep (unaware of God’s will for our lives or dieing young). Yes Connie, it IS all about your understanding. And understanding is one of the treasures of spiritual prosperity and is better than choosing silver (Prov 16:16).
You left out the most important part and what we are really being asked “TO DO.” Paul is telling them they must be broken just like Jesus was broken. Jesus did not sin but he did struggle with his flesh. The only difference is we fail but he always overcame. Paul’s warning to us is about envy, strife, division (I Cor 3:1-3), malice, wickedness (I Cor 5:6-8) contentions, jealousy, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults (II Cor 12:20) and idolatry (I Cor 14). The Lord’s Supper is our “way of escape” from all our temptations (I Cor 10:13-17).
King David is one example of being broken when he sinned against Bathshba and murdered Uriah. In Psalm 51 is David’s repentance and in verse 17 he said, “The sacrifice of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart – these, O God, you will not dispise.” My hope is that some who read this will be broken about what they said about Greg speaking UH-BAUGH-MIH-NAY-SHUN and having an heretical teaching. Communion calls us to JUDGE ourselves and not others.
The perfect parable of this judging of ourselves or coming under God’s judgement is found in Matthew 21:44 when Jesus said, “And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
So what is the answer to properly “discerning the Lord’s body? It is to recognize that we (you and me, the church) are the bread of the Lord’s Supper! Hear me out. Paul said this not only me. In I Corinthians 10:17 Paul said, “For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.” Yes please read this in context of chapters 10 and 11. But it is clear – WE, THOUGH MANY, ARE ONE BREAD AND ONE BODY. We are the body of Christ and how we speak to one another is important to God. We either feed each other the bread of the Word (life) or the poison of the worlds words of death. Words spoken on this blog contain many words of death and the Father is not pleased when we refer to his own body in that manner.
An obvious reference to us all being one bread is in I Corinthians 5:6-8 when Paul spoke of our malice and wickedness being a leaven to the body of Christ.
Julie, You said in post # 5, “To think that I can have my own private “communion” at home – it’s like they are trying to make us into little priests or popes in our homes or something.” Yes they are. And I am the priest of my house and I am part of that New testament royal priesthood and the holy nation that Peter soke of in I Peter 2: 1-10. Paul speaks of that concerning the Lord’s Supper in I Corinthians 11:3 when he says, “But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” This is the priestly order.
Warning to teachers
David, you said Pastors and teachers are held to a higher standard on #21 & 24. You are a teacher my brother even if you do not see yourself as one. It matters not to our Father if you teach one or thousands. Each one is precious in his sight. Brian Thornton, you also are a teacher and I pray I pray that your eyes will be opened to the spiritual truth of this Word in I Corinthians 12: 12-14
“For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body; whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free; and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many.”
What you speak (teach) that body is vital to the bodies health and wellbeing. All believers will stand before the judgment seat of Christ as stated in II Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
Do not think that this is speaking about your personal body. This is speaking about the things you are doing in the body of Christ. Look in context to the James 3:1 passage about the teachers being subject to a stricter judgment. James 3:1-18 is all about taming the tongue and especially verse 6 which says,”And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.” The leaven of malice and wickedness can defile the whole body “of Christ” if we do not bridle it through God’s grace. Fresh and bitter water should not come from the same spring (James 3:11).
I love all who have posted on this blog and encourage you to be open to what the Spirit is saying about Communion. The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth. Not only the truth about Christ but also about the truth of your own heart. The truth of communion is really more concerned about the latter. I pray that all will allow the Holy Spirit and the Word to examine your hearts for any sin against a fellow member of the body of Christ and make it right. The Lord’s Supper is your “way of escape.”
I hope that I have not cut and pasted anything out of context because I think I am one of those Word of faith teachers. God bless you all.
Brian Thornton said
Glen,
I don’t have time right now to respond to everything you have written here…but I do have a couple of thoughts.
1. The parable about the two houses, one built on the rock and the other built on the sand, is about doing the will of the Father, and being wary of those who promote false doctrine (you will know them by their fruits)…such as those of the word/faith movement.
2. There is no such thing as a “carnal” Christian.
3. Faith is not something to be used. It is not a force which can be wielded like a weapon or tool.
4. There is nothing in Paul’s statements concerning the Lord’s Supper that even hints that observing it properly can bring health or wealth. This teaching is nothing short of an abomination before God.
5. Paul’s statement concerning one bread and one body are simply to point out that, although we are many, we are one because we partake of the one body…that of Christ. Paul is talking about unity within the body of Christ.
6. Your view of the Lord’s Supper, among so many other things you have said here, are quite disturbing and even cross the line at many times into the heretical. The word/faith movement is NOT a movement within the bounds of orthodox Christianity, and the Lord’s Supper is NOT a way of escape.
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the TRUE riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe.
Glen Jeffers said
Just a comment about 3 of your points.
Points # 2 and 3
No such thing as a carnal Christian.
I Corinthians 3:1-3
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
Who is the brethren he is speaking to if not the ones who are babies, carnal and mere men (still walking in the flesh). I don’t know about you brother but I came out of an addiction that took several years to be delivered from. Their is no doubt in my mind that during that struggle I was a carnal baby Christian and the “churches” I was attending didn’t know what to do. Until I learned how to mix faith with the Word (Heb 4:2) and take a stand and fight I always failed and remained in my desert.
How do view people receiving healing because of THEIR faith, i.e. Mat 9:2, 9:21-22, Mark 2:4-11, etc.
Or that faith is a key to not fearing, Mark 4:40
Or that we are saved by faith, Luke 7:50
Or that a lack of OUR faith can block Jesus from performing what he wants to do in our lives, Mat 13:55-58
Or that OUR faith or lack of faith can fail us, Luke 22:32
Or that Jesus warned the hypocritical scribes and Pharisees for neglecting the weighiter matters of justice, mercy and FAITH.
I believe faith is to be used and I’ll just keep using it as a weapon and a tool to receive from my Lord. Oh, by the way, if you are saved it was because you used the measure of faith God gave you along with his gift of grace so that you could repent.
Point 5 and 6
You make of no effect the Word of God by your traditions my brother (Mat 15:1-9).
You best “discern the Lord’s body” (I Cor 11:29).
Paul is not simply talking about unity in the body. Hear closely what he said in I Cor 10:17 (KJV),
“For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.”
“WE BEING MANY ARE ONE BREAD…”
We are bread. We are the bread of the Lord’s Supper. Please read this passage and understand what you are saying when you say, “Your view of the Lord’s Supper, among so many other things you have said here, are quite disturbing and even cross the line at may times into the heretical.”
I am promoting love, peace and the fruit of the Spirit and you are calling what people promoters of heresy and abomination. I would suggest your repentance less God judge you for doing the very thing the Communion warns you against (I Cor 11:27-32). What you are doing is bringing leaven into the bread of the Lord’s body (the church). I leave you this passage to make it clear that we are the bread of the Lord’s Supper and the words you accuse the brothers and sisters of is bringing leaven into the body. Please change your words to speak the Word of life over the body instead of a word of death and poison.
I Cor 5:6-8
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
The whole lump is US (the Lord’s body), the feast is the Lord’s Supper, your words are words of malice and wickedness that have accused me and Gregory Dickow.
I say in closing, you best be absolutly certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are right because if you are not you are like Saul of Tarsus who persecuted Christians. Jesus took it very personally when he said,
“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
Why did Jesus not say, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting believers in me.?”
Because Saul also did not realize that to persecute Christians is to persecute Jesus himself because we ARE ONE BREAD AND ONE BODY.
Please examine what you are saying because what you say is like a poison to the body (James 3:8).
Brian Thornton said
Glen,
Your word of faith theology is what is poison to the body. I pray your eyes would be opened to the truth.
You said,
I believe faith is to be used and I’ll just keep using it as a weapon and a tool to receive from my Lord. Oh, by the way, if you are saved it was because you used the measure of faith God gave you along with his gift of grace so that you could repent.
First, do you hear how self-centered your theology of faith is? You will keep using it as a weapon and a tool to RECEIVE from your Lord?
Second, I am not saved because of ANYTHING I did. God did not save me because I used some ‘measure’ of faith that He gave me along with His gift of grace. I am saved because God gave me the GIFT of faith, and granted me repentance. My salvation is a monergistic work of God…THAT is grace.
David said
Glen, WOW! I feel so sad that you are so caught up in the WOF teaching you cant see the truth. I am not going to respond to your post as Brian said enough. I will also pray that God open your eyes to the real truth…the truth that Jesus taught.
Glen Jeffers said
Thank you
David Gantz said
I haven’t attended Gregs church since last December immediantly after involved member Sanford Finegold died of cancer – - Every Sunday even when dying with cancer Sanford was helping for hours after service picking up/ cleaning up the place.
Greg didn’t even know who he was, never knew he lived or died, didn’t mention to pray for Sanford when Sanford was dying, didnt’ mention to congregation that Sanford had served and died after he died.
The first paragraph Greg preached after Sanford died of cancer went like this > ” People are being healed here, halleleja, people are being healed of cancer ”
And a huge congregation of hundreds raised hands and said “AMen, Amen” with smiles and that warm fuzzy feeling that we buy into when preached with charisma.
But the people sitting in the chairs didn’t know that the man who every Sunday picked up the chairs they sat in was not healed of his cancer on earth but had just died.
And worse than dying, is that we couldn’t even mention Sanfords name for prayer before he died or in honoring his service to the church after he died.
Yesterday at grocery store, I was tempted to shove the grocery cart away and jump in my vehicle and drive away, BUT I remembered Greg once preaching for us to behave like Christians and do the little things that are right like PUT THE GROCERY CART AWAY SO IT WON’T ROLL INTO SOMEONE ELSES CAR – - –
I’m a single man who dates women until I find one and marry, GREG often preached with humor but sincereity for us as Christians to avoid ending up in bed fornicating outside of marriage, and I listened and remembered that when tempted,
Greg would ask after sermons > “did this help anyone?” Yes Greg, your sermons are remembered and help remind me to be a better person instead of a selfish jerk or immoral lout, Yes Greg, you ARE my brother in Christ,
But after Sandford died, I thought, do I want to simply go to a Benny Hinn, Creflo dollar type of mega church where people live, are born, get married, get sick or have accidents or even die and the MAIN MAN never even makes an effort to know any of us little people ?
Do any of these mega church spiritual super-hero’s do anyones funeral unless your really famous or rich ?
Greg is my brother in Christ, a good man, but would I even be allowed to walk up to him and have a conversation ? If I had cancer would he have the church pray for me ? If I died would he even know it ?
No no no and no,
I miss the people of Gregs church greatly, I MISS Greg AND HIS preaching, BUT would Greg miss me ? NEVER ! To quote the old song “We don’t need another hero”, >>>> I don’t need a spiritual superhero that never knew my name after years going. I get up every Sunday morning and there is a huge brick walll that prevents me from going anymore – - even though I’d want to go.
What am I even writing this for ? Do mega church preachers even care or ever try to know what people think or are going thru ? Or is it all about promoting the mega church and the “ministry” that bears the personal name and picture of the spiritual super hero who “founded” it ?
sincerely written, David Gantz
george zack said
greg d’s church.church belong to god.do’t got to a church thinking that someone shake my hand.go to a church with a prayerful heart,god speak to me.pastor greg can’t stay there and shake everyone’s hand,because he has to travel
more than an hour to get to the chicago cambus.when we die who’s going to bury? you can always make a will.if you enjoy listern greg d’s preaching then you should go and listern.life changers is a family oriented church and it is not a mega church.life changers is not for rich or poor,because it is for everyone.just go to life changers with open mind to be blessed.because devil is always there to twist thing and make you worry more.because tomorrow is not ours to worry about.when we die somebody will burry us.
george zack said
also do you remember september 11.what happend? most of those people were smart and probebly made big plan for their life and probably know so many big people and lot of those people were rich and many of those people got money in stock market and I my self suppose get a loan from there and i suppose close 1 property on that day,what happend? all that plan did not happend.you know why? because tomorrow is not ours to worry about.just put your trust in our Great God who reserve our praise,please do not look up people,just look further high where help come from.
david sanders said
George, you may not realize this ,but it IS Gregory Dickows, church because he owns it and the property it is on. God should own it! but in all mega Churchs( LC is one) in most cases the pastor owns the church(usually under an remote corporation. LC is not a family church..and the church is NOT for everyone… the rich get to sit up front while the poor sit in the back. The big givers get the attention of the pastor. Why does he drive to Chicago every sunday? because he will not give the pulpit to anyone else.
He wants to keep control of everything…no deacons, no elders, and only 2 other pastors(executive and childrens).
People get sick in the church and no one knows about it/ Why? cause that means you dont have faith.
LC is the perfect example of why people should stay away from the WOF churches. Cold, bad doctrine, unfriendly and all about the money.
Deborah said
First and foremost I would like to give all Praises and Glory and Honor to God.
Mr. Glen Jeffers, it was truley a pleasure reading your comment’s, that was backed up with scriptures, that know one could really responed or argue or debate. Which shows a clear sign that what you said was from God’s wisdom and knowledge. AMEN
Mr.David and Mr. Brain, May God Bless You that you may have eyes and ears to see and hear. I say this because it is troubling to read your comments. It brings me in rememberance when Jesus was walking this earth teaching the gospel in a new way. Do you brothers and sisters remember how Jesus was rejected because his teachings and preachings was New and Fresh, but when it was all said and done, it was and is the same yesterday,today, and tomorrow?
Do you brothers and sisters recall how Jesus was beat so horribly that they couldn’t reconize him?
Well I ask these Questions to go back to communion.
In every strip that was taken by Jesus it was for us. Why do you think that Jesus said,Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you:this do in remembrance of me” and then he said,”This is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me”. He wanted us to remember not just the physical aspect of it but the reason for it. Which was for our sins,healing,prosperity and the Awesome Love that he had for us and His/Our Father God. And please remember that prosperity means much,much more than money. But money is not excluded. Prosperity means in every aspect of our lives.
Is it really hard to understand that when you take communion it is not just about remembering what it was for, but knowing that by his strips we are healed? Do you relize that healing is not just physical healing but healing is Spiritually, Mentally, Physcally and Relationships with one another and yes Financially? If you can see that, then when you take communion as oft, you would take it with the spirit of Remembering and Knowing Jesus went trough all that for Us. It was and is about us, BUT FOR HIS GLORY.
There was a comment about the selling of communion. If we as Christian would just stop letting satin use us in any way he can. I believe we would have such a unity an we would become that one Church.
Now get real. What ever Church you belong to, believe me they have to purchase their communion from some where. And if you take communion at home what every you use you had to purchase it or some one did. These or little things that are used by satin to keep us in debate and strife with one anothr. God is not debatable nor is he strife. If you or not sure about something take it to God and ask for directions and instructions. Stop responding out of emotions. Emotions will blind you.
I PROPOSE QUESTIONS
If a testamony is given by a person who has chosen to take communion everyday in there home due to illness, relationships, finances or to have a Phenomenal relationship with God and to be and do exactly what God has created them for. And in there testamony they began to explain, before they began taking communion there life was a mess, everything was coming against them (and remind you this person is a devout Christian). As the testamonial goes on this person starts telling how God has turned their lives completely around in every aspect and that they have been Blessed a 100 folds since they have begun taking communion. DO YOU STILL JUDGE THE TAKING OF COMMUNION OR THE PREACHERS AND TEACHERS OF GOD WHO HAVE BEEN LEAD TO TEACH AND PREACH ON COMMUNION? ARE DO YOU FIND EXCUSES AND SAY THE TAKING OF COMMUNION EVERY DAY IS NOT THE REASON THAT THEY ARE BLESSED?
PEOPLE PLEASE WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT AND REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT STATEMENT MEANS. WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT.
Your Sister In Christ.
God Bless You Always And Forever In Jesus Name
Deborah said
Stripe not strip and stripes not strips
george zack said
When i say church belong to God,i don’t mean the property or the land.i mean church.we all have to leave everything behind one day and none of us can take nothing with us and we all have to answer to the maker.question is are we ready.honestly speking people sitting by pulpit not rich at all.suppose they are rich.they have to put it behind when they go.satan do not like church and satan will continue bring things to dissapoint people from going to church.long as we are faithful that is all it matters and god will take care the rest.amen and amen.
Deborah said
Satan not satin
george zack said
our own body that we dress up or wear expensive cloth,worship in a mega church,these are all temporary.whether we rich or poor,famous or not,person sitting next to us probably don’t know us,these things realy don’t matter,because our mighty God look in our heart,and that is all it matters,we can all do bad things and put make up and thinking that we can cover up,but all this thing will come up in light one day,and that is all it matters,so instead of worry too much about what other people do,which satan is working 24hrs to bring bad thoughts into our mind to make our heart filth.JUST LOOK UP TO GOD&ALL THIS SILLY THINGS ARE JUST TEMPORARY,like a fower,today it look good and tomorow with the wind it is gone and we must think like that.thank you and GOD BLESS.
Brian Thornton said
Okay guys,
That’s enough from Deborah and George and David for now. Please stop posting things or I will have to ban you from this thread, or lock it altogether.
Thanks.
david said
perhaps it is time to lock the thread…Im done and will not argue any longer. Brian you created this blog…and and spoke with truth from the Word…I did not mean to stir up the anger of others..just tired of WOF rants.
Ashley said
Wow I think It’s ridicules that you would ban people from speaking there opinon on a Holy subject.. you mean to tell me you only want to hear from those that agree with you, I have to say that is childish and quite sad. It dosen’t have to be an argument. You guys are talking about the Lord and like most church folk from todays preasnt and past you have shut down and closed other ways of thinking as if you you are all knowing about the Bible. IF you look into your history and see that you are like those that have tried to shut down Gods prophets and slowed down the progress in this world today. God is able to reach all through anything he has no boundries so who are you to make them…and what if you are right You would rather give up than try to teach and spread the knowledge and if you realize your wrong your ok with staying ignorant to the facts. Its time you wake up and realize that Gods people need to stay together and only he knows who is right or wrong. Stop thinking and acting in the flesh. And after this I dont need you to post that your going to band me it will be the last time hear form me at least on this site.
Brian Thornton said
Ashley,
There were a couple of people who continued to post over and over again, basically saying the same thing…over and over again. So I asked them to cool it for a while.
If you don’t like that, fine. Set up your own blog and let them reduntantly post over there. This is my blog, and I’ll ban if I want to (which I didn’t do, by the way).
Thank you.
David Gantz said
Lock up this thread ? Why ? Keep it open.
So what if things get a little heated. Good debate is supposed to be a pushin’ shovin knock the other guy over !
The facts end up winning – - the hype ends up blowing away in the wind – -
Brian Thornton said
Okay. Enough is enough. This thread has outlived its usefulness.