Real Mormon Thought Revealed…The Character of a Man

Some of you may have been following my attempt to get Roy, a self-professed Mormon, to engage in an actual discussion of his beliefs and some of the glaring shortfalls of Joseph Smith as a true prophet of God. You may have noticed in a couple of my comments that I referenced the editing or not approving of some of his posts because of what was contained in them. I have told him and other Mormons that this site would not become a platform for their religion, but that I would be happy to talk with them if they would be willing to directly engage the issues. Roy, like most other Mormons who have posted here, can’t seem to directly address an issue, but feel the need instead to run off in all sorts of directions and diversionary attacks, all the while providing link after link to various resources for Mormon propaganda. They refer to so many web links that I wonder if they now go door to door with a wireless laptop so that they can pull up various websites in order to answer questions as they arise.

I have told Roy on more than one occasion not to do that in his comments, or else they would not be approved or I would remove the propaganda and only show the parts that might have something to do with the issue at hand. I think now it may be time to show to you some examples from Roy’s comments that I have not approved for posting. I think these will help to perhaps give some insight into, deep down inside, what Mormons really think about those who reject their message. Is this what really lies behind the sugary sweet smiles at the door and good-works attitude? You be the judge.

Here they are:

Nip at our heels, fight the work of God, I’ve proven your arguments weak, now it’s your chance to soften your heart and ask your Maker if this work is of God. Don’t rely on the word of man, rely on the Spirit of God. If you can’t accept that challenge my friend, you have no business calling yourself a disciple of Chirst [sic].

Hahahah I win! You can’t handle the truth. Keep peddling your garbage my friend.

Brian- answers no questions/ fails to convert
Steve- stands on sidelines clueless fo [sic] what hit him because Brian deletes it
Roy- winner takes all/ answers all questions/ graciously bows and accepts the crown.

Mormons always joke about the unique Southern hostility only found in your neck of the woods. We’re making inroads though. There are currently about 15,000,000 Southern Baptists and about 14,000,000 Mormons. Love us or hate us…you’ll be seeing a lot more of us in the near future.

Come on B-Rian….I want some direct answers from post #4. What’s the matter have you tucked your tail and run for the woods? Go ahead and throw more of your anti-mormon hype at me. I have all the answers at my fingertips…(just as you do now that I’ve given you the web address). I’ve got a rebuttal to it all.

How many million more people do we have to convert for you to realize the Kingdom of God is here to stay?

I swear on the holy Bible that I’ll let you personally baptize me 3 times over as an Evangelical(3 times because mormonism is hard to wash off I’m sure) if you can show me that you have the answers to life’s great questions. I’ll even sit next to you in the pew and we can share a hymn book (buddies for life). The only problem I consistently run into with this challenge is, “why would I give up my filet mignon for your hotdog?” (you do know what filet mignon is right?)

BE A MAN BRIAN NOT A CHICKEN.

SOUTHERN FIRED CHICKEN…SHOWS HIS WEEKNESS AGAIN. CAN’T HANDLE THE ANSWERS SO HE PUTS HIS BLINDERS ON. WHERE’S YOUR COURAGE SOUTHERN SISSYBOY?

Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person. – Col. 4:6

but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect – 1 Pet. 3:15

A Totally Cool Me Me Me Me Meeeeeeee

I have been tagged for a MeMe by Mike Leake over at Borrowed Light, so now I am supposed to list seven things about myself that you don’t know about me, but which hopefully won’t cause you to stop dropping by here! I take no responsibility for what you think of me after this post. Read now my seven cool things. Here goes:

1. Looney Tunes are my favorite cartoons of all time. I can remember watching them as a kid on Saturday mornings during the Bugs Bunny/Road Runner Show. Taz is my favorite character. I love them so much that our first child (Rachel, who is now 12) had a baby room that was completely decorated in Looney Tunes stuff. It was a cool room!

2. While working in retail at CompUSA back in the early 90’s, I had the privilege of meeting several well-known people including Brett Butler (baseball player), James Worthy (basketball player), and Clarke Howard (famous consumer advocate based here in Georgia). The most famous one, though, was B.B. King. Yep! He was in town for a series of concerts at either the Lakewood Theater or Chastain, and he came into CompUSA with some of his family to buy a notebook computer. I was the Software Manager, and got to walk around with him while he filled up two shopping carts full of stuff! That was cool!

3. Ever heard of the Omni? It was the facility where the Atlanta Hawks (b-ball), Flames (hockey), and the Chiefs (indoor soccer) called home. It has long since been demolished and replaced with Phillip’s Arena. I saw many events in the Omni, including concerts by Elton John, U2 and Slim Whitman (don’t ask), Michael Jordon’s first b-ball game back from retirement, and John Havlicek’s last b-ball game in Atlanta (he was with the Celtics). The most memorable event, though, was when I got to play in a basketball game during the halftime of one of the Hawk’s games. That was cool!

4. At one of the many Hawk’s games we attended, my best friend Kevin Poe and I met Elle MacPherson. She signed my SI Swimsuit issue, which featured her on the cover. That was really cool! Or so we thought at the time, anyway. Please keep in mind that this was twenty-two years ago, and try not to think less of me today because of it!

5. While at the Ligonier Conference in ‘05, I had the privilege to meet and talk with Mark Dever, and that was totally cool! Dr. Dever was used mightily by God in my life and was very instrumental in educating me about what a healthy church looks like. I thoroughly enjoyed the opportunity to be able to meet and talk with him at that conference. It marked a milestone for Pam and I as we soon thereafter began to search for a healthy and biblical church home. Praise God that we found that in RCC!

6. I have three vivid memories as a young boy. One is being driven by my Grandfather when I was five in his old red pickup truck to meet my dad who was playing golf. I remember being able to join him and go along for a few holes. That was cool to a little kid (and being able to remember that is still cool today). Another memory I have is standing out in front of the hospital in Macon, Ga when I was four and being asked by my dad what I thought about the name ‘Heather’ for my new little sister. That was cool. The third memory is riding behind my Grandfather as he drove his schoolbus on his route. I remember being told by him not to mess with all the cool gadgets and controls right there in front of me, which I did not obey and was promptly popped on the hand! That was not really cool at the time, but looking back, it is still a fond memory.

7. Pam and I met in college (Georgia State University – go Panthers!), were both involved in the BSU, and were friends but were never really that close. Seven years later I was on a date at the Old Spaghetti Factory in Atlanta waiting on my name to be called so that my date and I could be seated. My name never got called. As we got ready to leave, I walked right into Pam, who had gotten up from her dinner party to go answer a page from a friend (pagers and pay phones were still the norm back then). Seven months later I got up the nerve to call her at work and ask her out (which was on April 1st, by the way). We were engaged four months later and married the following March. We will be fifteen years in a few weeks. Don’t you know that I truly believe in God’s Providence! If they had called my name that night at the restaurant, or if Pam’s friend had not paged her, we would not have run into each other that night…and that is the coolest thing of all!!!

My turn to tag some people: Thirsty David, Jason at Fide-O, Campi, Lisa, Carla, My Two Cents, and Ken Fields.

Imitate Their Faith

I had the great privilege of being able to spend some time last night with the elders of my church. What an incredible blessing it was to sit down with them and talk about the things of God. I walked away from there edified, encouraged, and filled with an even greater desire to imitate their faith.

As a result of my time spent with them yesterday, my desire today is to direct your attention to your leaders, those whom God has sovereignly placed in charge over you. Are you praying for them? Are you submitting to them? Are you imitating their faith?

So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock…Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. – 1 Pet. 5:1-3, 5

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. – Heb. 13:17

Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. – Heb. 13:7

Rick Warren Endorses Pagan Rituals

Did that headline grab your attention? I believe it is 100% accurate. Warren posted a video while at the Davos World Economic Forum on how issues such as poverty, AIDS, corruption, illiteracy, disease, and spiritual emptiness can be solved through business, government and faith sectors working together. In the video linked below, Warren talks about people from all faiths and religions doing good around the world to bring an end to these “global giants”, and he makes the following statement:

“Frankly, I don’t care why you do good as long as you do good.”

He then goes on to talk about how people can have different types of motivations for doing good, and then makes this statement:

“Jesus said, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’, and that’s my motivation…but it doesn’t have to be your motivation.”

I recall listening to the White Horse Inn fellows discussing the issue of good works one time, and they said that any ‘good’ work that is done apart from faith in Christ, any act that the world perceives as good that is done apart from the gospel and that is not motivated by a regenerated heart, is nothing more than pagan ritual.

I also recall Paul saying that those in the flesh cannot please God, and the author of Hebrews stating that, without faith, it is impossible to please Him.

What is the point of doing good apart from the gospel of Jesus Christ? Is there any merit in doing good just for the sake of doing good, as Warren and others advocate? Should Christians join together with people of all manner of religious beliefs, put their faith in Christ in their pocket, and strive to tackle issues like AIDS and poverty apart from any saving message of repentance from sin and faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation? Is not the heart which enters into the doing of ‘good’ with a motivation of something other than gratitude for their having been saved nothing more than pagan ritual?

Here’s the video…

(HT:Christian Research Network)

Is It Sufficient?

From The Case for Traditional Protestantism – Terry L. Johnson…

All that we need in the way of doctrinal, moral, and ecclesiastical training is found in the Scripture. The sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments are sufficient to equip the people of God ‘for every good work’. Not just ’some good works’. Not just ‘most good works’. No, the Bible equips us for every situation. The Bible is complete, unique, sufficient.

The case can be made that every corruption of biblical Christianity begins by compromising the principle of sufficiency. Every deviation from the Christianity established by Christ and the apostles begins by adding to the Bible or by taking away from it. Every deviation is the Bible plus or minus something.

For the Christian Scientists, it is the Bible plus Mary Baker Eddy’s Key. For the Mormons it is the Book of Mormon. For the Jehovah’s Witnesses it is the Watchtower. For the Seventh Day Adventists it is the revelations of Ellen White…Unless a practice comes from Holy Scripture, it has no place in the church. Scripture alone determines our faith and practice. To depart from this position is to be guilty of the…sins of the Pharisees who, ‘neglecting the commandments of God…hold to the traditions of men’ (Mark 7:8). – pp.37-38

The Legacy of a Mormon President – We Must Do More

President Gordon B. Hinckley, who led The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints through explosive growth during his more than 12 years as president, died 7 p.m. Sunday at home of causes incident to age, surrounded by family. He was 97. – read more

I read with sadness this morning the news that the president of the LDS Church, Gordon Hinckley, died yesterday. My sadness is not the result of emotions generated by the loss of a great voice for Christ and the gospel, but because of the realization that, if he truly believed what his religion teaches, then at 7 p.m. on Sunday, January 27th, Gordon B. Hinckley fell asleep surrounded by his family and woke up in perdition.

In reading though the detailed account of his life in the article linked above, I understood even more what the mindset of a Mormon really is: “There is so much more that needs to be done”. Sadly, the biography of Hinckley’s tenure as president of the LDS church is one void of Christ and the gospel, but one full of works and accomplishments.

One of the most pitiful things noted by the Deseret Morning News staff that they apparently felt distinguished Hinckley was his charge for all Mormon members to read the Book of Mormon all the way through. Hinckley promised that by doing so, “Those who read the Book of Mormon will be blessed with an added measure of the Spirit of the Lord, a greater resolve to obey His commandments, and a stronger testimony of the living reality of the Son of God”.

My first thought after reading this was to ask God to have mercy on Hinckley’s soul, but sadly, it’s too late for that now. For, as the author of Hebrews declares, “it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment”.

I would like to encourage all Mormons everywhere to read the Bible all the way through instead of the Book of Mormon. Or perhaps just read the New Testament all the way through, or even just read John’s gospel and Paul’s letter to the Romans all the way through. As you are doing so, ask God to reveal the truth of who He is and what He requires in order to be saved.

It is too late to pray (or baptize) for Gordon B. Hinckley. It is not too late to pray for the millions of others who are lost and dead in their sin within the Mormon religion. For those Mormons who may stumble across this post in the coming days, I pray you stumble across the corner stone (Jesus Christ) and be broken, as opposed to the corner stone falling on you and you be crushed.

Don’t focus on the Book of Mormon! Focus on the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures [the Bible, not the BOM], concerning His Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh [fully man] and was declared to be the Son of God [fully God] in power according to the Spirit of holiness by His resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 1:1-4).

If you are sincere, my Mormon friend, about knowing the truth concerning God and His gospel, then read this with an open mind, and ask Him to open your heart as you consider what this passage means:

The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for In him we live and move and have our being; as even some of your own poets have said, For we are indeed his offspring. Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead. - Acts 17:24-31

I cannot pray this for Gordon Hinckley, but I do here and now pray for God to have mercy on your soul, my Mormon friend. May He be pleased to reveal Himself to you, in the person and work of Jesus Christ. He alone is your only hope. Set your eyes Him, the author and finisher of faith.

Picture of the Day

Health Warning…don’t swallow bubble gum!

Blame my mom for this one…she sent it to me!

Church Marketing

What’s wrong with this picture…

This was a postcard we received in the mail yesterday advertising a local church. The image you see is the only thing that was on the back side of the mailer. Coffee plus blue jeans (casual dress) plus electric guitar (cool, contemporary music) plus the Bible. While it is most definitely pitiful to have the Bible as the last thing in the line of items being used to sell this particular church, the fact that it is last in the order probably sums up where the word of God actually falls in importance on any given Sunday at this place.

The flip side of the post card gives the reader the main reasons to come to this church. These are in order and word-for-word:

• You’ll hear some great music and a relevant message to fuel your week.
• You’ll hang out and enjoy a cup of coffee with friendly people.
• Best of all, come as you are and just be yourself!

Anybody have the urge to go based upon what you’ve seen so far? Is this really what attracts Christians to a particular local body of believers? Is this indicative of what one will find in most churches today; great music and a relevant message, hanging out and drinking coffee, coming as you are and just being yourself?

Reconciling the Plagues in Egypt

I’ll give a sheep shout-out to anyone who can explain the apparent contradiction between the fifth, sixth and seventh plagues which God brought upon Egypt as described in Exodus 9:1-12. Here are the portions of those plagues to be reconciled:

Fifth Plague: Egyptian Livestock Die

“But the Lord will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and the livestock of Egypt, so that nothing of all that belongs to the people of Israel shall die.” And the Lord set a time, saying, “Tomorrow the Lord will do this thing in the land.” And the next day the Lord did this thing. All the livestock of the Egyptians died, but not one of the livestock of the people of Israel died.

Sixth Plague: Boils

“Take handfuls of soot from the kiln, and let Moses throw them in the air in the sight of Pharaoh. It shall become fine dust over all the land of Egypt, and become boils breaking out in sores on man and beast throughout all the land of Egypt.” So they took soot from the kiln and stood before Pharaoh. And Moses threw it in the air, and it became boils breaking out in sores on man and beast.

Seventh Plague: Hail

Behold, about this time tomorrow I will cause very heavy hail to fall, such as never has been in Egypt from the day it was founded until now. Now therefore send, get your livestock and all that you have in the field into safe shelter, for every man and beast that is in the field and is not brought home will die when the hail falls on them.

First, what is the apparent contradiction?

Second, how can this apparent contradiction be reconciled?

Let the Weeds Grow

I fear I am close to beating a dead horse, but I would like to come back to this parable of the weeds for one more look. I have often heard this parable of weeds growing alongside wheat as being a reference to the church, and have gotten some comments to that effect here on this blog. What I want to do is briefly test the consistency of that position with the parable itself along with some of the functions and responsibilities of the church.

To begin, I completely acknowledge and agree that the church is in the world. I know that sounds rather obvious, but it may head off possible objections to what I am saying with a position that I do not understand that the church is, in fact, in the world. Having said that, though, I would like to point out that the church, while in the world, is not to be of the world. That alone brings up some problems with the notion that this parable of the weeds is about the church, for the field owner instructs his workers to let the weeds grow along with the wheat until the harvest. More on how that is problematic in a moment.

Another point I would like to make is that, in the parable, Jesus starts off by saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field”. Not only does the man in the parable sow good seed, but he sows that good seed in his field. He owns the property where he is sowing good seed. “Aha!”, you say, “This proves that the parable is about the church, for Christ is head of it and owns it.” Very true. But, is He not also the owner of the the whole world as well? Is there anything outside His authority and ownership? And are you really prepared to suggest that there are weeds in Christ’s true church that He is building, His true body? The other thing to observe here is that Jesus compares the kingdom of heaven to this man who sows good seed in his field. The kingdom of heaven, my friends, is not contained only in the visible church! The kingdom of heaven, at the harvest, will be the whole earth – Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Finally, a real problem of consistency arises if we take this parable to be referring to the church, specifically with respect to the instruction by the field owner in the parable to let the weeds continue growing along with the good seed. If the field in this parable is the church, and if we are then to leave the weeds alone who are in the church, the why would Jesus give the church instructions on how to discipline and even excommunicate those within its fold? Does that not violate the field owner’s admonition to leave the weeds alone? Would we not be going against his wishes when we take steps to ensure that the visible church mirrors the true church as much as possible?

This is perhaps the biggest problem I have with the position that the field is the church in Jesus’ parable of the weeds, that and the undeniable truth that Jesus Himself says, “The field is the world”.

Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. – Matt. 13:40-43